Stambaugh Auditorium, Youngstown, Ohio
Sunday, September 2, 1962
Kathryn Kuhlman
DOES GOD HAVE A BODY?
I got to thinking yesterday that there is one thing not a single person in this auditorium knows: what the future holds. We do not know from one day at a time. We do not know from one hour at a time. Little did I know, when I began answering that question as to whether or not God had a body, how much the next weeks would mean to all of us. I do not believe that I meant it to be my choice and yet, it all began before we knew what all the days were going to hold. I have never had the Word so thrill my being as it has this past week. It has taken on new life. One lives in almost two worlds. One lives so close to the other. That is the reason why there is only a hair’s breadth, only a step, only a veil between the two worlds. It is just like that!
To some people it may not make a difference as to whether or not God has a body.
It makes all the difference in the world to me, because God is not merely the mighty Creator. I never think of Him in just the light of being the glorious Creator that He is, all things having been created by Him. That is thrilling: that is marvelous! But to me He is my Heavenly Father. He loves me. I am a part of Him; He is a part of me. I am in His care; I am in His keeping.
I have preached on it. I have told you. I thought I knew the real meaning, until one night this week when Freda and Maggie drove away. And as they drove down the driveway, it was dark and the house was so lonely. It is amazing how lonely a house can be. One instant it is so full so crowded. There is no vacancy at all. It is alive. And then, suddenly, it becomes so big, and so overpowering, and so empty. Isn’t it amazing how alone you can feel with millions of people in the world, people all around you. In that moment as the car drove away, I felt as alone as I ever felt in my life, but just for an instant. I stood in the center of that kitchen and in that moment I realized I was not alone, not for an instant. I had a Heavenly Father to whom I belonged, a Heavenly Father whose existence is as real as the air that I did breathe, a Heavenly Father who was loving me, and I was surrounded by His care. And there was my wonderful Jesus, my glorious Redeemer, my Saviour, protecting me and guiding me. And there was the Holy Ghost, my marvelous Strengthener, and legions of angels. I was surrounded not only by their protectiveness, but so close – probably closer than they had ever been to me before, were the loved ones over on the other shore.
The only thing that hid that reality from my sight was that thin veil, so thin that I felt that if I would but reach out my hand – and I was human enough to literally reach out my hand, thinking perhaps I could feel something, I could touch that garment and feel the touch of that hand; and looking through blinding tears I could see the smile of that face. That’s real! I wouldn’t exchange an experience like that, I wouldn’t exchange my HOPE today for a title deed to the whole world.
The Person of God the Father is as real as He was to Moses that day, and He was real to Moses. That was not a vision. You can’t prove to me that that was a vision that Moses had. I am going to read the Scripture that I closed with two Sundays ago, proving to you that God has a body, and then I shall continue on with the rest of my message. That was real; that was not a vision. If you tell me that that was a vision that Moses had then, beloved, destroy the Ten Commandments. If you tell me that that was only a vision, only a figment of his imagination, then, beloved, you and I have a right to do away with the Ten Commandments. One was just as real as the other. There was a conversation that took place between the two, between the Lord God and Moses.
Turn, if you will please, to Exodus, chapter 33, verse 17:
“And the Lord said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou has spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.”
Exodus 33:17
“And the Lord said unto Moses…” For Moses asked that God Himself would appear unto him. When we see how human the greatest of saints have been, that is one of the greatest encouragements to my own heart. Human? We never get beyond that state of being human, until that day when that which is corruption becomes incorruption. We never get beyond that place where we do not think in human terms, until that day the spirit leaves the body. We are human: Moses was human. He knew He was there. He believed Him completely. It was not a weakness of faith. Not for one minute was it a weakness of faith. It had nothing to do with faith. ‘Please let me just look upon you. Let me see you for an instant, not that I am not satisfied, but because I want to.’
Verse 18:
“And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.”
Exodus 33:18
‘Just show me thy glory. I want to see You.’
This is God speaking now. Verse 19:
“And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.”
Exodus 33:19
God speaks. I may one of these Sundays show you how many times God spoke audibly. God spoke audibly at the time when Jesus came up out of the water at the time of His baptism, when He said: “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” That was the VOICE of Almighty God. God spoke to Moses. I believe that God spoke in an audible voice, as audible a voice as they heard at the time of the baptism of Jesus. Those standing round about heard it. So surely did God speak to Moses in an audible voice. It was a conversation between the two.
Verse 20:
“And he said, Thou canst now see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.”
Exodus 33:20
Oh, that’s thrilling! “Thou canst not see my face.” God has a FACE. There are features. There are eyes; a nose; a mouth; ears. How do you know, Miss Kuhlman? Because He said to the Son and to the Holy Spirit: “Let us make man in our image, and after our likeness.” And the body, the form of man, was made in the likeness and in the image of God. Man was made, man was created in the image, in the likeness, in the form of God. You cannot deny it. God has a face, even as man has a face. And He uses the word “face.” “Thou canst not see my face.”
“… for there shall no man see me, and live.” So great is His power! That is the reason I told you over and over again that these physical bodies of ours, in this present state, cannot take heaven. I think these bodies would ignite; they would burn up; they could not stand it. Our bodies in the state they are now couldn’t take it – when you see what just a little bit of the power of God does to the physical body.
Somebody says: Oh, that terrific heat that came over my body. What was it? Nothing but the power of the Holy Ghost. You talk about the slaying power of the Holy Ghost. It is just like having a little tin can for a chassis and a 200-power motor in the thing. The power is too great for the chassis. This old body of ours, as I will explain in a few minutes, is of the earth and it can’t stand the Glory and the Power of the Glory.
He said: ‘You can’t. Your old body is still corruption and still a body that was made from the dust of the earth. Moses, you don’t begin to understand. Your body can’t take the glory of My face. If you would look upon My face, your old body would just ignite and you would just disintegrate immediately. Your spirit and your soul are intact but that one-third of you is still earthly. So you can’t see My face and live.’
Verse 21:
“And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exodus 33:21
Verse 22:
“And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by.”
Exodus 33:22
I have visualized this over and over again. I think this is so marvelous. It is the combination of the human and the Divine. God’s dealing with the human, speaking with the human, in a language that he could understand.
‘Moses, you stand on the rock. You can’t look upon My face, but I love you so much, I am going to grant at least a part of your desire. I’ll put My hand’ – and when God spoke of His hand, I believe He meant His hand. He was not figuratively speaking. He meant His hand. I believe that when you and I see God the Father, when we see Him face to face, we are going to see a Heavenly Father with a hand, a perfect hand, the same hand that wrote on the wall, the same hand that will wipe away our tears – the hand of Almighty God. And He laid that hand over Moses’ eyes and He passed by. I wonder what the feeling was like. Me thinks that Moses could somehow feel the glory that was passing by. One of these days I am going to ask Moses what the sensation was like.
Verse 23:
“And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.”
Exodus 33:23
And when God said, “thou shalt see my back parts,” I can promise you that Moses saw what God had promised. And when the hand was taken away and Moses looked, Moses saw the stature of Almighty God. He saw His back parts; he saw His shoulders; he saw the back of God. He felt His hand. He hid His face, for he could not look upon His face. The glory was too strong. Hallelujah! That’s our Heavenly Father. And man was created in His image, and after His likeness. Now, in just a minute, I’ll come back to that.
The Word says that God is a Spirit. We have established the fact that God has a body. A fool is the man or the woman, with all the evidence that we have, who would dare say that God does not have a body. It isn’t sound reasoning. It is a proven fact that God has a body. But the Word of God also says in John 4:24:
“God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:24
If, beloved, you did not first of all have the knowledge that God had a body, that God had a face, hands, and that God could speak; and if all that you had was this Scripture that God was a Spirit, then you would accept the idea that God was just a Spirit. That is the reason He becomes something that is intangible to about ninety-nine per cent of the people who sit in their pews on Sunday morning, and He is sometimes very intangible not only to those who sit in the pews but to those who stand behind the pulpit. For you and for me, He is more than just a spirit someplace away out, someone of great influence. A lot of folks accept God only in the light of some great influence, something that is very intangible.
The very minute that a man behind the pulpit begins to pray, … I’ll tell you whether God is something tangible or intangible to that man. When He becomes something tangible, He becomes something personal. When He is only an influence and only thought of in the terms of something that is Spirt, then you cannot think of Him in “wiping away the tears” and being interested in every detail of your life. He is tangible. He has a body and at the same time, He is also a Spirit. And I am going to shock you by saying, as surely as God is a Spirit, so surely is it a fact that you are a spirit and I am a spirit.
The Heavenly Father is a Spirit, Jesus is a Spirit, and the Holy Ghost is a Spirit. The Holy Ghost is present in this place. The Holy Ghost moved upon this people when the great miracles of healing were taking place. I did not have one thing to do with the miracles that were taking place in here today. But moving upon these bodies was that marvelous restraining power. One moved whose body was not seen. He moved upon us as Spirit. The very Spirit of the living God moved upon this people this morning as real as the fact that you are sitting here in your pew. Not just an influence, not just one of the attributes, but the very Spirit of the Trinity – the Holy Ghost.
As surely as God is a Spirit, I am a spirit; you are a spirit. And as we sit here and worship Him – beloved, we do not worship Him and yet, I am at a loss for words to express what I want to say. It is not the natural man that worships Him; it is not the natural man that touches Him; it is not the natural man that feels the glory; it is not the natural part of us
that feels and senses and is blessed by His presence. It is that part of us which is spirit that contacts the spirit, and His Spirit contacts our spirit and we say we are blessed. That is what the Scripture means: “God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” The WORD is the Truth. It is the spirit of us that worships Him. Oh, to me that is glorious!
That is exactly what Jesus was trying to say when they were shocked at seeing Jesus in their midst, after His resurrection. Being frightened, thinking it was a spirit that they saw, when Jesus stood in their midst, what did Jesus say? “… for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.” (Luke 24:39.)
And the kind of body that you and I will have will be the kind of body that Jesus had when He appeared, after His resurrection. Know that! And yet, beloved, remember something. There is a body, but in that body, there is also a spirit. You remember, it is over here in Genesis 2:7, when God created man:
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
Genesis 2:7
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground.” That is the reason that this body as it is today returns to its original state. Why? Because you and I are the strange combination of two things. As you sit there, you are the strange combination of something that was formed from the dust of the earth and one day it is going back to its original state; but inside of that body is a spirit that comes from God Himself, and that is eternal. Man is the strange combination of the temporal and the eternal. And it was so from the first Adam. “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; …” And when God breathed into man the breath of life, “man became a LIVING SOUL.”
Man has continued to be a living soul ever since, and man has continued to be that combination of the temporal and the eternal. The temporal going back to the dust of the earth from whence it was formed. But yet, beloved, within every human being that lives and breathes, within that temporal, there is something that is eternal, as eternal as God Himself; for the very breath of God was breathed into the first Adam and will continue to be breathed in the last man that ever lives and breathes.
For that reason, in every man that exists there is a capacity for the Divine. And what is it? The spirit! I don’t care where that man is. That man can be a heathen in Darkest Africa. I don’t care who that man is who has ever lived and ever breathed. Inside of that which is temporal, there is a knowledge of the Divine. You will never make me believe that there has ever been a human being who has not sometime in their existence had that knowledge of the Divine, of Almighty God. And what was it? It was that spirit within them, that part of them that was a part of God Himself, that part of them that never dies.
You will be you forever and forever. I will be me forever and forever. No fire, no water, no power can ever destroy the spirit of any human being. You cannot destroy it any more than you can destroy God Himself, for you and I are as much spirit as God is Spirit, and God is Spirit as we are spirit. And that which is spirit reaches out and touches God. That spirit connects us with God. It is the Holy Ghost who sends mighty conviction. No man cometh unto God go himself. No, for man is just a created being from the dust of the earth. The natural man does not of himself come to God, except God draws him. It is that which is spirit; his spirit connects with God.
I am going to say something. There are those who can give testimony of it, those who have given testimony, regarding that which is very precious; and I believe it as surely as there is a God on His throne. There are those who stood by the bedside of loved ones who have passed on to Glory. There are those who can witness that they saw something leave as that one took their last breath. There was something very strange as that last moment came. I remember well someone telling me – they were not fanatical – of having literally seen something undefinable that left the body of that precious mother and it went through the open window when the heart took its last beat, and the last breath had gone. That is real!
What happened? That which is spirit, that which is a very part of God Himself left, that something that will never die. Never! Do what you will. You cannot destroy it. You don’t end it by taking sleeping pills. You don’t end it by blowing your brains out. You don’t end it, beloved by tying a rope around your neck. You don’t end it with death. The only thing you really end is this which is corruption; this which goes back to the dust of the earth from whence it was formed. That which is spirit, even as God is Spirit, continues to live.
Is there anything quite as dead, and are you any more helpless, than holding the head of a loved one when the spirit has left? You can weep, you can beg, you would gladly give everything you possessed if you could put something back into that body that just left. If you could do it with these hands, if you could do it through sacrifice, you would be glad to do it. But for the very first time in your life, you are stumped; you have come to the dead end street, and you are helpless. The body is there, those are the same hands, that is the same face, that is the same body that was alive a moment ago; but the person is not there. Something has gone. It is gone!! That something that made that person individual; that something that made that one vibrant and alive; that something that gave that person personality, that gave that person life. What left? That something that God breathed when He breathed into the nostrils of man and made him a living soul.
And when that which is eternal and which is spirit leaves that which is temporal, that which is temporal becomes nothing more or less than clay and will soon become dust and earth and disintegrate. But that which is eternal – remember when death comes, the destiny of that which is eternal depends on what you have done with Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
There is something very marvelous that I want you to see, and that is, that without the body that which is spirit can see, knows, has a will and exists. How do I know? Turn, if you will please, to that which is found in Luke, the l6th chapter, beginning with the 19th verse, between Lazarus and the rich man. And remember something. The bodies of both – the body of Lazarus and the body of the rich man – had been buried. There had been a funeral for both. This is not a parable. The Scripture is: “There was . . .” It is not a parable. Me thinks there was a funeral service for both of them. And yet, as one spirit was in Hades and one spirit was in Paradise, it was the spirit that was existing and they were able to see, they were able to talk and they were able to recognize each other. They carried on this conversation. They had a memory; they understood.
To be perfectly frank, the body amounts to very little, and yet, you and I are so shortsighted that we put the greater value on the body and the lesser on the spirit.
And here is something. Paul says in the 13th chapter of I Corinthians verse 12: “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face…” Face to face with Whom? Face to face with God.
I shall look, one day, upon the face of God. Beloved, this old body of mine – just as in the case of Moses, could not stand to see the face of God, the glory of His face, because it is still corruption. This body that we put such a premium on; this body with all of its aches and pains, one day will be restored again to the dust. But one of these days, you and I are going to have a body like unto the body that Jesus had, and Jesus had a body. His resurrected body was like unto the body that the Father had, for Jesus said: “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” The Father is going to have a form. You and I will have the form of Jesus, and Jesus has the form of the Father, and man was created in their image.
Actually, literally, Paul says, we shall see then not through the glass, darkly, as we are seeing. There is so little we understand. There is so little we know, and we go out into darkness, and we hunger; and every atom of our being craves to know more, and just for a little while we see a little, … and heaven is so near. But the day is coming when we shall see Him face to face. When he said face to face, he meant face to face.
God shall look upon my face; I Will look upon the face of God; Jesus will look upon my face; and I will look into the face of my wonderful Jesus. I will again look into Mama’s face and Mama will look into my face. I will look into the face of my Papa and my Papa will look into my face. I will look into the face of my brother and my brother will look into my face and say – Kathryn. And I will look into the face of Eve and Eve will look into my face and say – Pastor. I shall be me forever and forever. Eve will be Eve forever and forever.
Willie’s little boy was right when he said: “But why couldn’t we have had the carnival last Sunday (the Children’s Church Festival)? Eve wasn’t there anyway.”
We weep because we are human. We are lonely because we are in the flesh. We are hurt because sometimes we realize how dark the glass really is and how hard it is to see. But one day, it shall not be just spirit meeting spirit. One day, it shall be face to face. “… now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” (I Corinthians 13:12.)
I will be Kathryn forever. I shall be as you know me. But you shall know me that day without all of my weaknesses, and my failures, and my shortcomings. You shall know in that day how much I really love you. You cannot see. There is no way of telling now. Some folk cannot express themselves. Some love so deeply and yet, you would never know. Some care so much and yet, they have never been able to tell it. Some would gladly lay down their lives and yet, there is no way of expressing it. That day you will really know how much I love you, and I shall know in full the depth of your appreciation. We shall understand and understand clearly. But, beloved, watch something.
The important thing is not the body. What shall we eat? What shall we wear? We spend a lifetime taking care of that part of us. We spend a lifetime at jobs, at businesses, hours, taking care of the body: the feeding of the body; the clothing of the body. The body … the body … the body! And yet, the body is not the important thing. A slave to the body that one day goes back to the dust of the earth from whence it came. The feeding of the body. They stood in line, 4, 5 deep. You saw them in the A & P and Kroger’s and Thorofare, in every market – the body, the body – carrying out the basket loads and bags filled. A slave to the body. But it isn’t the body that is important, for we lay it away and it disintegrates and it goes back to the earth from whence it came. But it is that part of me which is spirit.
And He breathed into man His own Spirit, and man became a living soul. Beloved, it is that soul, it is that part of you that is spirit that lives on, that no grave will ever hold, that no coffin will ever hold, that death will never touch. And it is that part of you that I plead for this hour. It is that part of you that must accept Him. It is that part of you that must believe. It is that part of you that must be united with Him. It is that part of you that must be redeemed.
“NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION.” It is too late after the spirit has left that body. It is too late when the doctor says – He is gone; she is gone. This is the hour you need to prepare for that time when God calls you home. You have got everything at stake. Just look up and say: “Pass ME not, O gentle Saviour, Hear my humble cry, While on others Thou art calling, Do not pass ME by.”
Don’t wait! Do it NOW. There will be a day without its tomorrow for YOU as well as for ME.
We live not for today. We are living for that day when we shall see Him face to face; when we shall see our WONDERFUL Jesus, face to face; and when we shall see our loved ones, face to face.
PRAISE THE LORD!!!
